I drew up a simple diagram of how to do it right, and how to do it wrong! (It was all in BMP but somehow when I saved it got switched to JPEG)
Simple wiring diagram
- Thread starter Grotonems5
- Start date
Nice drawing, but the switch power circuit is overkill. You only need one fused circuit to the bank of switches powering the relays. To go further, use the switch inline of the relay grounds.
EVModules said:
It is a little more work and more materials, but this way if you have a problem with one relay it won't kill all of your switches which will kill all of your lights. Just one example of course!
The relays are good practice, but not entirely necessary with LEDs (but it won't hurt to have them if you want them). The inline fuses aren't really necessary if power coming to the switches is fused at the distribution point, so you can eliminate the inline fuses to save on materials.
Good to look at though. Maybe color code the different circuits for easier reference in the future?
Good to look at though. Maybe color code the different circuits for easier reference in the future?
i am trying sooooo hard to work through this and plan out a rewire of my entire vehicle. i am struggling with parts locally so i was trying to see how i could set it up without a solenoid. where am i feeding the main power to the switches from the fuse panel? how can i wire it up this way without the relays, or with the relays? This diagram is a great start but i need some help with signal direction and pin-outs.
Thanks!
Thanks!
I really like this diagram and I think I'm going to follow it for a re- wire. I use All LED's, but I haven't built a Load distribution system in a while! How many amps should the solenoid, fuses, and relays be if I'm only running LED? Thanks:undecided:
jcpse said:
Nobody can know how many amps you'll pull just by saying you run all-LEDs. So:
1-Add up the wattage of every module you have.
2-Divide that by 12 Volts. You'll have the amperage pull of your system.
3-Find the proper fuse for the load
Amps=Watts/Volts
So if you have let's say 95watts total: 95watts/12volts = 7.92 amps.
I understand the relays and the fuse block/distribution block, but is it always necessary to use a solenoid, or when you have more equipment?
DMCGONAGIL said:
No, you don't always need a solenoid if you wire your vehicle correctly. It all boils down to what equipment is being installed. Very rarely is a solenoid required in a typical install.
Agreed, solenoids are meant to handle high current loads (Think winch). The only time I ever used them was in 2 years working for a defense contractor, good bit of call for them in military applications. Now especially, relays will get the job done just fine if needed (in most cases). With the wide use of LED's and LC switching in most systems these days, there's really becoming less of a need for them than ever IMO. My most common uses for them now are #1 To create my own LC or Neg. switching systems #2 Light cutouts #3 To isolate components.
Example of #2 Pursuit switch 1: Rear/Deck 2: Front/Rear/Deck 3: Front/Rear/Deck/Dash/Grill Push button 1: turns off dash* 2: turns off deck* *For no flashback at night.
Just my :twocents:
Example of #2 Pursuit switch 1: Rear/Deck 2: Front/Rear/Deck 3: Front/Rear/Deck/Dash/Grill Push button 1: turns off dash* 2: turns off deck* *For no flashback at night.
Just my :twocents:
jcpse said:
The best way to find your load is to ask on the forum if people have taken real life current draws for specific light heads or bars at full load.
One example is with something like the Feniex Cobra 100. It is using 6-4Watt LEDs ( 24 watts / 12 volts = 2 Amps ) but when turned on in steady burn ( highest load draw ) it pulls around .8 amps. So as was stated before to be on the safe side you can take the total wattage of each head and you should be safe. I can not vouch for other manufacturers and current draw but maybe that could be a thread to have ( if not already there )
Hope this helps
Kd8bao said:
Does that mean that they really aren't using 4-watt LEDs at all, or that they are using 4-watt LEDs and are substantially under-driving them?
DMCGONAGIL said:
Great drawing for anything Halogen, Pretty over the top for anything LED. And I am not trying to derate the drawing by any means but there are some redundancies that only complicate the system, and are not needed.
Realistically, The solenoid is huge overkill for an LED up fit. Many Solenoids are generally rated for 85 - 100 amps, We carry them that can handle 200, and there are some that are bigger. Off the shelf relays are commonly rated at 30/40 amps NO/NC. Granted there are others of those as well, but they are not as common. So if your entire LED load is 7.5 amps, you could replace the $35 solenoid with a standard $5 relay, and be just fine. I would have 2 fuse blocks though, 1 ign hot and 1 batt hot.
I want to point out to; solenoids have 2 different ratings, Intermittent, and Continuous. I have heard so many people say "Go get a ford starter solenoid" for this type of system, which is wrong. The starter solenoid is intermittent duty and will not last. It is better to head to your local RV dealer and get what they will probably call a "Battery shut off" solenoid. What you really need is a “continuous duty” solenoid.
Relay triggers only take around 250 mA. So you could use a much smaller gauge wire from the switch to the relay. 18 is fine, but you could go down to 22 if you wanted with no problems. 18 is a lot easier to work with and will save you a few bucks.
The 10 gauge to the relays is great for high powered lights, but for LED, 14 gauge would be more than plenty and still meet NFPA requirements, even on very long runs.
The Wigwag modules generally have a power lead, and a trigger wire. The power lead could go straight to the fuse panel, and the trigger lead to the switch, eliminating another Relay. They do not have any parasitic draw when they are off, so you don’t have to worry about killing your battery.
I also am not entirely sure why you have a relay on the siren?? I would run the siren straight to the fuse block and eliminate a failure point.
The inline fuses after the relays are redundant and not needed since you have a fuse block in place. If you had multiple lines coming off the relay going to separate areas of the vehicle, then those fuses could be usefull, but still pretty redundant.
I see why you would run each switch to an individual fuse, but again, redundant and not needed. It will add a spaghetti mess to your switch panel when really you only need 1 “switch power” lead that will branch off to each switch. If you were not using relays, YOU WOULD fuse each individually.
I would also add a diode across the coil of the solenoid, to help suppress the high voltage Coil inductance that can kill LEDS.
And not that this is on the drawing, but I feel I should point it out because there always seems to be confusion on this. All the grounds should go to a chassis ground, NOT to the battery. IF you want to go to the battery, you SHOULD fuse the grounds AT the battery. I know, seems weird, BUT say you hook your grounds to the battery lug that goes to the ground post, then the ground cable that attaches to the body, or to the engine block starts to fail or become disconnected, the only way the vehicle is going to get a ground to turn the starter, is to try and complete the circuit through the auxillary grounds you attached to the battery lug. This can do some serious damage to equipment. If you fuse those grounds, then the fuse should blow preventing bigger problems with your equipment, but to be safe, I would just run them to the chassis.
For someone that is trying to put together a very safe system though, this is a decent diagram and will be way overkill for most applications.
I can also vouch for this being a very well protected (and potentially overkill) system. I used a somewhat similar setup with my Crown Vic but instead of relays, solonoids, or fuses to start I used resetable circuit breakers. The major concert that people have with them is the time it takes them to trip when presented with excessive current. Some people say that with higher rated breakers (150+ amps) they may take several seconds to trip and open the circuit. This PROBABLY will not cause an electrical fire but may damage sensitive equipment like computers, radios, and flashers (both internal and external).