Clarification needed.

[New in state!]

I am looking for some clarification.

First things first……I am definitely not looking for enem anywhere close to impersonating LEO/EMS/FR…..

With today’s society, even if I did want to impersonate another career field….LEO would be way below the last choice. Today’s LEO/FR’s have enough trouble without looking for me as an impersonator. Some days I have enough trouble impersonating my own career field, much less someone else’s.

With the above said.

I am looking to add red and amber rear facing “in vehicle” lights…..but not for the reason you may think.

The rear “deck edge” lights are for “contrast” during turns and hazard flashers. Yes the set has multiple flash/strobe patterns but I don’t care about them. The main items I would use is the turn signal function, brake and back up lights. If they were…”Hardwired” to the applicable wire in the vehicle wiring harness so as to only come on when the four functions are used …(brake, turn signal, hazard flashers, brake and back up lights….would that be illegal? Yes a vehicle that has a LEO equivalent, but no where close to anything resembling a LEO vehicle. The only common denominator with the LEO equivalent is the vehicle manufacturer and model.

I personally would say no, as in NOT illegal and only benefit to me is the additional safety of rear light viewing distance. No roof bars, forward facing and especially NO Blue or Red/Blue combination. Simple rear window shelf mounted lights.

??

 

[New in state!]

Along those same lines…..would an amber/red/yellow flashing light in the trunk be illegal.? Remember only visible when trunk open?

For the first part of this thread, remember the only light anyone will see coming from behind is an amber flashing or possibly steady light…..at a further distance away hopefully providing better protection for them and myself….ok myself and my vehicle. The red or white lights would be as required by use of brakes or backup lighting.

 

[JohnMarcson]

As with everything in public safety, the answer is "it depends". There are some main factors:

• Geographic Location
• Equipment type and appearance both on and off
• Vehicle type
• Driver behavior

 

[New in state!]

Thanks!

Take you as a LEO…..your coming down a very poorly lit road at night…could be a rural/unincorporated area or possibly a foggy and even Interstate lights are having trouble penetrating the fog.

You approach this vehicle along the side of the road….notice the flashing but steady flash pattern not the alternating, rotating, inboard/outboar, etc…..

Assuming you stopped, got out to check the vehicle. Would you question and possibly issue citation for the lights being used in strictly a “disabled/stranded motorist not trying to pull over motorists? Would the explanation of “extra contrast with increased visibility to other vehicles and move on?

Scenario #2

LEO in stationary mode….(median, let’s say Radar)…… observe same vehicle maintaining normal flow with traffic…..not exactly to the number of the speed limit but maintaining flow and not aggressive. You see the amber light activated in sequence with a lane change and return to off like normal turn signal…..would you consider that suspicious and make a traffic stop?

Scenario #3…..last one.

You are LEO following same vehicle on same type of road in a normal (moving) patrol mode. Observe the vehicle on side of road with amber lights in the…”Hazard (4 way warning flasher mode….. vehicle leaves roadside and gets back into traffic ? Still consider suspicious and possibly make a traffic stop of vehicle to ask about lighting?

All three scenarios are a simple act of trying to provide a extra measure of safety for the motorist and hopefully extra contrast and visibility for oncoming motorists and again not even anywhere near a remote chance of trying to impersonate LEO/FR

 

[NPS Ranger]

I hesitated to reply at first but now that it seems like you're almost begging for forgiveness/acknowledgement that you would never ever want to appear to be impersonating law enforcement, in multiple scenarios.... I will add my 2 cents.

Your original posting said "Yes a vehicle that has a LEO equivalent, but no where close to anything resembling a LEO vehicle. The only common denominator with the LEO equivalent is the vehicle manufacturer and model." So I assume you're driving an old CVPI or a newer PIU or something similar. Whatever floats your boat.

First, what you can install in your own state is dictated by your state vehicle code and statutes. Here in my state, interior lights as you propose are illegal except for police vehicles. (67 Pa. Code § 173.3. Display requirements). Before you invest in red/amber flashies, you might want to check the laws in your own state.

Second, most officers are not light freaks and would not appreciate the nuance of "notice the flashing but steady flash pattern not the alternating, rotating, inboard/outboar, etc….." What will attract attention is light color, and what you are attempting to do with your vehicle. Disabled on the side of a rural road at night in the fog, I doubt anyone is going to care what lights you display aside from red/blue or whatever constitutes police in your locality. Driving on the interstate and using an arrowstick on the rear shelf, on a beat-up old CVPI, might just gain you some extra unwanted attention, particularly since you would only need to be using your super extra high visibility turn signals on the interstate if you were passing other vehicles. Fitting out your rear shelf with CHP-style visible-color red/amber flashies while driving a surplus Crown Vic in California, will most likely get you the undivided attention of any cop stopped behind you in traffic, even if your lights are off.

Third, a lot depends on your attitude. Someone in their 40's driving a surplus Crown Vic as a taxi or car service is not worth a yawn. A teen driving a surplus Crown Vic with aftermarket lights so that everyone will look at them as an unmarked police car, BUT having deniability that "I would never ever ever want someone to think I'm impersonating a law enforcement vehicle" gets old real quick.

If you're worried about safety when you break down on the side of the read, buy some flares. If you think your rear lights aren't bright enough, get brighter bulbs or else install an additional pair of DOT-compliant stop/tail/turn lights, in a manner legal in your state.

Like John said above: Location, appearance, vehicle, behavior.

 

[New in state!]

Thanks, for the feedback. Sounds like a possibility of “unintended consequences “ and although concept and logic is sound the practical application could squash and potentially override the …”well intended” thought process.

Nothing has been installed yet.

I do remember the CHP rear window desk lights/flashersfrom my USN days in central California.

Sounds like back to the drawing board. I am figuring that even hard wired/ splicing into the OEM wiring harness so they are only activated with the three applicable circuits…(brake, hazard, reverse) lights will probably not work out either.

Thanks again for the feedback, not worth a traffic stop with a real LEO vehicle that does have permission to use deck edge lights.

Although the CHP deck edge lights were a thought, the main idea came from some of our local PD’s having an Amber light built into the external light bar. Same as what I am thinking, extra contrast against the normal “sea” of red and blue lights of every vehicle on the road.

What I do like is the sequential flashing lights as in flashes onboard-outboard due turn signals and possibly a “lane splitter function. Example LEO/FR parked in center of whatever event they are trying to warn oncoming vehicles and allow vehicles to pass on either side with caution. Apparently that is legal in that some vehicles come with it from the factory.

 

[New in state!]

As with a lot of scenarios these days, sounds good and call but not worth the risk….however we’ll interpret the person was!

Thanks again and I assure everyone on this forum, that the true intent was added contrast and better, further”upline” visibility to reduce risk with hopefully more reaction time for oncoming traffic.

 

[Sparky_911]

As others have said....check your states laws on vehicle lighting. Another thing to keep in mind is the unintended consequence of using said lights ( the stranded motorist scenario) and how distracted/intoxicated motorists are like a moth to flame.

 

[TDC]

All that, and 547.3215 TRC pretty much says that whatever lights you have on your car when it comes off the assembly line is what you must retain ... you can read that either as no less, and/or no more.

The CFR it refers to ensures that all vehicles' lighting on the highway look the same. Look down a freeway at night, all the taillights display the same way regardless of the design, because they spend a lot of time and money making them that way.

If you want to get noticed, better have a front license plate. legal tint, high beam indicator light, etc.

 

[JohnMarcson]

Sometimes if you have to ask about something you shouldn't do it. This seems to be leaning that way.......

 

[Firefighterhtfd]

To many situations that will likely end poorly for you my friend, it’s not worth the possibility of a bad outcome ,